WEBVTT 00:00:04.640 --> 00:00:09.800 "O, to turn my heel on the pole, and rotate 360 degrees in a second." 00:00:09.800 --> 00:00:13.940 These are the words of Joseph Banks, 18th century Royal Society President 00:00:13.940 --> 00:00:16.920 and explorer on the Endeavour with James Cook. 00:00:16.920 --> 00:00:19.460 Hi, I'm Anna Marie Roos, I'm at the Royal Society 00:00:19.460 --> 00:00:23.740 and I'm also editor of Notes and Records, the Royal Society journal for the history of science. 00:00:23.740 --> 00:00:28.240 In December 2019 we're doing a special issue on Joseph Banks. 00:00:28.240 --> 00:00:33.640 Banks inherited vast lands in Lincolnshire, which allowed him to do whatever he wanted to do with his life. 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:36.900 He had a tremendous interest from a young age in botany 00:00:36.900 --> 00:00:41.340 and he became a paid naturalist on James Cook's voyage to the South Seas. 00:00:41.340 --> 00:00:47.340 He also brought back thirty thousand plant specimens and one thousand zoological specimens 00:00:47.340 --> 00:00:56.180 with the help of his friend Daniel Solander. 00:00:56.180 --> 00:01:00.100 So Simon, does this portrait really represent the reality of Joseph Banks? 00:01:00.100 --> 00:01:02.260 Well this is one reality of Joseph Banks. 00:01:02.260 --> 00:01:06.220 So, it's a portrait that was made when he was President of the Royal Society, 00:01:06.220 --> 00:01:10.280 and he'd just been awarded the Order of the Bath, which is the red sash that he's wearing. 00:01:10.280 --> 00:01:16.960 And it's a picture made to show him as an authority, to project his power as a centre of science. 00:01:16.960 --> 00:01:24.120 It's not the only reality of Banks, he had many other guises as a family man, as a botanist, an explorer 00:01:24.120 --> 00:01:25.180 all kinds of things. 00:01:25.180 --> 00:01:28.320 But it's not just him, there are lots of other people around him. 00:01:28.320 --> 00:01:31.760 If you imagine all the people who aren't in this picture, 00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:35.940 there were men and women who contributed to what he was doing 00:01:35.940 --> 00:01:38.140 that we don't necessarily know about. 00:01:38.140 --> 00:01:43.800 So Hannah, you looked at some of these other networks that were really important to Banks and the Royal Society, 00:01:43.800 --> 00:01:47.820 but there's sort of more hidden, Banks isn't necessarily the centre of all of them is he? 00:01:47.820 --> 00:01:48.500 Absolutely. 00:01:48.500 --> 00:01:51.160 So, Banks was surrounded by a whole host of people. 00:01:51.160 --> 00:01:57.180 These were collaborators, draughtsmen, artists, translators, assistants, and even family members. 00:01:57.180 --> 00:02:00.520 And so although we see Banks as a kind of expert statesman here, 00:02:00.520 --> 00:02:04.740 I think what we need to think about is all the people who contributed to his scientific projects. 00:02:04.740 --> 00:02:08.380 Banks was perhaps less of an originator of all his scientific projects, 00:02:08.380 --> 00:02:11.500 and more of an expert facilitator working with these communities. 00:02:11.500 --> 00:02:15.920 So there's really much more of an interplay between the supposed centre and the periphery 00:02:15.920 --> 00:02:17.320 than we thought before. 00:02:17.320 --> 00:02:23.480 Absolutely. 00:02:23.480 --> 00:02:28.400 So Hannah, who was Charles Blagden and what was his relationship to Banks? And... 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:34.320 I'm really curious what the connection was of Blagden to this wonderful little thing here. 00:02:34.320 --> 00:02:36.060 Oh wow! 00:02:36.060 --> 00:02:37.380 Are these tea leaves? 00:02:37.380 --> 00:02:38.340 Yes they are. 00:02:38.340 --> 00:02:42.060 So Charles Blagden was secretary and assistant to Joseph Banks, 00:02:42.060 --> 00:02:47.500 first a sort of personal assistant and then he became secretary to the Royal Society in 1784. 00:02:47.500 --> 00:02:50.880 And Blagden didn't come from a very, kind of, wealthy background, 00:02:50.880 --> 00:02:54.880 and so one of the ways he would tried to sort of socially climb, I guess, and get ahead in life, 00:02:54.880 --> 00:02:57.760 was by appealing to Banks as his patron. 00:02:57.760 --> 00:03:01.140 And one of the ways he went about this was by sharing news 00:03:01.140 --> 00:03:06.700 about natural philosophy, about botany, and he also even provided specimens to Banks. 00:03:06.700 --> 00:03:11.220 So the example we have here are these tea leaves, which Blagden would have possibly sent on to Banks 00:03:11.220 --> 00:03:12.440 in order to win his favour. 00:03:12.440 --> 00:03:16.900 Oh I see, so it was sort of 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours'. 00:03:16.900 --> 00:03:18.260 Yes, exactly. 00:03:18.260 --> 00:03:22.060 So one of Banks's projects was to transplant tea from China to India, 00:03:22.060 --> 00:03:27.780 so yes this is very much, kind of, playing into Banks's scientific agenda. 00:03:27.780 --> 00:03:31.340 So Hannah, could you tell me a little bit more about the role of women in Banks's network? 00:03:31.340 --> 00:03:35.820 We have for instance this letter from Lady Elizabeth Grey written in the 1780s. 00:03:35.820 --> 00:03:40.200 Yes, so aristocratic women were really important as consumers and communicators 00:03:40.200 --> 00:03:42.940 of scientific knowledge at the end of the 18th century. 00:03:42.940 --> 00:03:46.580 And so, this letter from Lady Elizabeth Grey is sent to Charles Blagden 00:03:46.580 --> 00:03:51.620 and it really shows how Lady Elizabeth Grey was, kind of, fascinated by the latest scientific knowledge. 00:03:51.620 --> 00:03:54.300 There's a really interesting line in the letter which says 00:03:54.300 --> 00:03:59.840 "So long as I breath this air, pure or impure, I shall retain a thirst for information" 00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:07.280 which really highlights how these women were really passionate about scientific knowledge. 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:10.840 So Simon, what surprised you most about Banks when you studied him? 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:16.180 Well Banks is famous as the naturalist on Captain Cook's first voyage of exploration, 00:04:16.180 --> 00:04:19.040 and as a botanist, and as president of the Royal Society, 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:20.380 but he was also a landowner. 00:04:20.380 --> 00:04:25.520 So, he was very wealthy, he had big estates in Derbyshire and Lincolnshire in particular, 00:04:25.520 --> 00:04:31.620 and he used those estates as places to do experimental researches in all kinds of activities. 00:04:31.620 --> 00:04:38.440 He's doing experiments on livestock, on canal building, on engineering, on agricultural chemistry, 00:04:38.440 --> 00:04:42.200 there are spinning competitions going on with all the villagers who are his tenants, 00:04:42.200 --> 00:04:45.440 he's involved with the local jail, all kinds of activities. 00:04:45.440 --> 00:04:47.780 Being a kind of enlightened estate manager. 00:04:47.780 --> 00:04:51.580 He also certainly understood hospitality, I heard that Banks was quite a fisherman. 00:04:51.580 --> 00:04:56.420 He was, so he used to take these huge parties of people on fishing expeditions. 00:04:56.420 --> 00:04:59.180 They didn't catch a few fish, they caught fish by the tonne, 00:04:59.180 --> 00:05:03.360 and they would record this in books that commemorated their voyages. 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:07.380 One of the things that Banks was famous for was being extravagant, 00:05:07.380 --> 00:05:10.400 doing things on a very dramatic scale. 00:05:10.400 --> 00:05:14.900 Another thing that Banks does a lot of is dining. Eating, you know. 00:05:14.900 --> 00:05:21.760 So, the Royal Society has a dining club and Banks held botanical breakfasts in Soho Square. 00:05:21.760 --> 00:05:25.200 He's doing this all the time, and he had gout as a result. 00:05:25.200 --> 00:05:26.020 I would imagine. 00:05:26.020 --> 00:05:31.320 So Banks is doing this partly recreational, but it's also to build connections 00:05:31.320 --> 00:05:34.160 and cultivate relationships with people. 00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:36.140 That was a very important part of science at the time. 00:05:36.140 --> 00:05:39.460 Networking and patronage were key. 00:05:39.460 --> 00:05:41.620 It's another meaning of scientific fellowship. 00:05:41.620 --> 00:05:44.800 Exactly, exactly, so that you could share ideas and talk, 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:46.200 and that was how it was done.